71. You’re Doing Better Than You Think with Jennifer Renee Watson

You are listening to the podcast where we ask, how's all that working for you?

Because sometimes all you need to change your life is a moment of reflection.

In this space.

We are done with sugarcoating.

We embrace keeping it real.

I'm your host, Rachel D. Baker, guiding you on this journey to create some breathing room, set healthy boundaries, and reclaim your time guilt free.

This is real talk with a bit of sassy, and we are always seeking the truth in God's word.

Welcome to this week's episode.

I'm so excited for the interview we have today.

We're going to talk with Jennifer Renee Watson today.

She has been on my wish list for a little bit and she has a new book out that we're going to talk about.

But I have a lot of reasons I'm going to.

We'll get into it later.

But a lot of reasons why I feel like we are kindred spirits.

So we will get into that as the conversation goes on.

But first, just in case you don't know anything about her, you will by the end of this episode.

Here's what you need to know going in.

Jennifer Renee Watson is a fierce advocate for mental health and abuse survivors who are bravely healing from unresolved trauma and finding their voice.

Jennifer learned how to unpack a lifetime of baggage in the spotlight of leadership.

Bless her.

And found out that outing her brokenness opened more doors than faking perfection ever did.

She's the author of Freedom, the Gutsy Pursuit of Breakthrough and the Life Beyond It.

And her latest book, what if you're Doing Better Than youn Think, Finding Courage and Confidence.

When life is messy, does that not speak to our hearts here?

I'm so excited for this.

She also co hosts the popular More Than Small Talk podcast with our beloved Holly Girth and Suzanne Eller, and she's been in ministry for 24 years.

She served in various leadership roles in the church.

Jennifer, I'm so glad you're here.

Oh, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me in that sweet intro.

Thank you.

Well, I think the best way to sum up how I knew we were kindred spirits.

So I listen to your podcast with Holly.

We've had her here.

I love her.

Got to have coffee with her at.

One point, you know.

Cause we're all in Arkansas.

Don't know if you knew.

No, I didn't know.

I'm like maybe three hours from you.

So if you want to meet up for coffee sometime, we can have that conversation.

We will.

But I listen to the podcast and I Think Susie and Holly are like, very calm, sweet spirits voices.

They kind of calm me.

And.

Not that you are not, but, girl, you got a little more of my sass.

I have some sass.

We got some sassy.

And we've got, like, the.

The Southern spirit as well.

And so I have to tell you, I have it highlighted because I thought it was so great in your book Freedom that, which was your first one, this line, and I've.

I shared it with a friend, and she was like, oh, yeah, I know.

Y' all should be besties.

You're talking about, you know, how God is more than enough, and if real love is unconditional, why on earth are we working so hard to earn it?

This is the line, though, that could have come out of my face.

Do we want to be everything for our family and friends?

Yes.

But can we?

Girl, you are not Jesus.

Right.

And I.

That just speaks to my soul.

Yeah.

Just the way that you.

The way that you write, the way that you communicate your thoughts, your love and compassion for others is just.

It's a precious thing to me that I relate to.

So thank you for that.

So we're gonna jump in so that you can talk to us about your heart behind this newest book especially.

But before we get in too deep, I gotta ask you what I ask all my people.

What does breathing room look like or feel like for you?

Breathing room looks like.

No pressure, like outside pressure from others, but mostly the inside pressure that we put on ourselves to tell us that we need to do more.

So really, it's just.

It's really chill.

It's a chill space of just going, you know what?

I'm just gonna be here and do nothing and be fully okay with that.

That's breathing room for me.

Yes.

That's the piece we talk about a lot here, of having that space and time guilt free.

Yes.

I love.

That's such an important part, because you can create time for yourself.

You can take time out and it still could feel selfish or you feel.

Guilty for having it.

So I do think that's important.

Awesome.

Okay.

So your newest book that just came out, which also has a lot of highlighting in my copy, by the way, what if you're doing better than you think?

Finding courage and confidence when life gets messy?

And I know from reading it and hearing you talk about it, this comes from a really personal place.

It does.

So can you share kind of what encouraged you to focus so much of your work on women's healing, especially mental health and abuse?

That area.

I mean, really, it is so personal for me because I've experienced it, you know, all sides of things that we really don't like to talk about, but like, you know, probably neglect, emotional support and abuse.

Like I've experienced all of it and long time I concealed it to protect the.

The person that was harming me.

And.

And then I realized I didn't have to do that.

So writing this was like the craziest thing cuz my world had basically imploded.

I had tried to write this book multiple times throughout two years and just life was crazy and messy.

So I set it aside and then like I literally turned in my laptop.

I had to resign my job that I absolutely loved.

My relationship was falling apart.

My daughter had just gotten into this accident.

And as I turned in all of my keys and all of my things, I was driving home and got the news from my agent that I was.

Got the book deal.

And I was like, this is absolutely the first time, you know, in my life.

Wait, wait, maybe.

Maybe not now.

Yeah.

And so I was like, oh my goodness, I'm not going to get to ride on the other side of this.

I'm gonna have to be in the messy middle of my story and write through it.

And it was hard because I had to be, gosh, a level of vulnerable that I probably was terrified of.

But I know it produced the best work that I possibly could have.

I think that if life was cushy, you know, I just think I needed to be in the messy season to talk about abuse and mental health from a very honest and broken space.

Mm.

That's why I do it.

Because I feel like in this world we're not.

It's not getting easier.

We have a lot going on.

And so it's.

Mental health is always going to be something that we need to take care of.

And instead of pushing it aside or making ourselves feel horrible about it, we've got to prioritize our mental health, period.

That's so interesting for me to hear you speak of it that way because I, I got that sense all throughout reading the book.

I like, I could tell it was from more of a raw and not like an unhealthy ick.

You know, some people like, want to share their story and it's fully no healing happening and it's.

It comes across a little more, I don't know, gross.

Is that an okay word to you?

Yeah, it is.

And so I do think you wrote this.

It sounds like more from the other side, but to hear you say, like, still being in the middle of It.

And that's also encouraging to me because I am in.

I am in a season girl.

Like health things and teenagers.

One with autism.

And like, there's just a lot.

Yeah.

And I find myself in that place a lot of times of, like, I just.

I can't even show up on social.

Right.

I don't want to do another.

Who am I to speak and encourage when things feel so hard?

Right.

Right.

And so it's interesting for me to read through that and hear a different perspective.

Yeah.

Instead of like, you need to be healed and on the other side before you can talk and share.

But that does.

That doesn't sit with me.

Yeah.

That's not the vibe of coming together as God's church.

Right.

Right.

Well.

And I think that we want to tie everything up in a pretty little bow.

And there's no bow.

Right.

Nothing pretty.

Where is the bow?

Where's the dang bow?

I mean, there's nothing to like to pretty up.

Like heartbreak and devastation and trouble with our children.

And, you know, like, in the trenches of real life every day I was like, I can't make this cute.

It's not cute.

You know, it's painful.

It's raw.

It's everything that I never want anybody else to experience.

But I was in the trenches and thought I can either be brave or I can try to keep finding the bow.

Mm.

Crawl in a hole and wait for it all to get better.

Easier, Prettier.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Which never comes.

Yeah.

And so with that, I think I go one of two ways.

When I do get in that mindset of, you know, just sitting your hole and wait till it gets better.

Everything is too hard.

It's too much.

Do I have capacity for any of this?

Or I will do the thing that I tell everyone not to do, and I will.

Should all over myself.

Yes.

And I say it.

People are probably tired of hearing it.

But when you should all over yourself, it stinks.

It does.

There's not a nicer way to say that.

And so between that constant struggle of what we should do and then those feelings of shame.

Yeah.

You know, that can come with sitting in our hole.

Yeah.

It can be really hard for us to kind of slow down, come to terms with.

Do the things that are needed.

But why?

Because I know you feel this.

Why is that slowing down piece so necessary?

So I'll.

This is kind of what I've found, like, with mental health.

Depression tells us that we're not enough, and anxiety tells us we're not doing enough.

So that's why we don't like the pause.

We feel guilty for the pause.

Yeah.

And it's absolutely insane.

But like, it's just, that's the common thread.

Like, we feel like we have to try harder, do more.

But like being still and feeling your feelings and letting it hurt without distracting yourself from it.

That's like, that's the power move.

I mean, hard, because it's easy to shut down, it's easy to numb out.

I mean, I'm really good at all of that.

You can distress yourself with Netflix and food and you know, all the things.

Yep.

Sitting in it.

Not that that's powerful.

Yeah.

And it's not something we would consider typically to be powerful.

No, it doesn't feel that.

No.

I was like, why?

How was.

Why is that even coming out of my mouth?

But it's true.

Because, you know, like, it's just almost like trading that word painful for powerful.

Like, God, what do you want to do with this?

What do you want to do with the mess?

Because it can't be for nothing, you know?

Yes.

And he does, he always does something with it.

You know, that's my biggest thing.

Looking back on things, I'm like, how in the world out of this garbage can anything.

And he always does it.

Always.

Every time.

It's the wildest thing.

Yeah.

But I'm so thankful.

So I know I have like one of two modes when I hit seasons like this or periods of life that are extra hard where, you know, the healing is hard, the sitting in it is hard.

Yeah.

It's kind of like the uncomfortable position when I do sit with a coaching client and say, like, so how's all that working for you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just a moment of curiosity.

It doesn't feel great.

It is helpful.

It is a powerful thing.

Yeah.

So.

But I know I go one of two directions.

Either I sit back and don't want to deal with things and I like the food and the shows and the numbing, or I can go into hyper productivity mode and just get it.

Everybody get out of my way.

I have got this.

It is a, it's a control thing.

Right?

Yeah.

Instead of doing that healing.

And I love in chapter three of your book, I like wrote it down, girl.

So you say in chapter three, a burden lifts when you realize you are not what you produce and you are not in charge of making everyone happy.

And I literally read that to my 17 year old daughter the other day and she went, ooh, that's good.

So, you know, we're trying to change the legacy as we raise Our children.

Right.

But just that quote in mind, those thoughts in mind, what steps do you think we can take to be sure we're on that path to healing and not doing?

Yeah, well, I mean it's like you said, it's easy to go into hyper productivity and distract ourselves and it's because we want to be enough for like we want to be enough for our jobs, our roles, all of the things for our kids.

But like something powerful happens when we release our death grip on making people happy because we're just not going to.

And so I think when that's our.

When we're measuring ourselves based on how other people are treating us or responding to us, we're always like we're going to tank because our self worth is based on how what their is showing us.

They're not our mirror.

So making other people happy has to be taken off the table.

You know, it's just not going to happen.

And it feels so hard.

It feels hard.

But it's okay for us to go.

That's not my job.

You know my therapist, you'd be like that's above my pay grade.

That's above your pay grade.

And I'm like, okay, meaning it's impossible to please everybody in our lives.

You know.

And so that's what we're going for.

We're always going to be spinning our wills and going nowhere.

So with that in mind, because some I know early on in my journey, listen, therapy for everyone, please and thank you.

I love, I'm so thank.

I mean don't always love but I'm so thankful for the therapy I've done and still doing trauma work.

Girl, that is no joke.

It's no joke.

No joke.

It's a whole vibe.

But for those who have always done the people pleasing.

Yeah.

And not even just people pleasing, but I want my people to be okay.

Yeah.

I want my people to be happy.

And so trying to feed into that.

Yeah.

Which is actually unrealistic.

Right, right.

What do we focus on instead of.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know what?

I. I think it's even like just some practical steps is, is maybe doing the like, is this above my pay grade?

Is this what God's asking from me?

Or is this something that I'm wanting to like control and micromanage and you know, where you're just like trying to like predict the outcome so asking yourself what like what am I afraid of?

What am I afraid of right now and what is my responsibility and what do I need to just release because like what I found over and over with life and hard things is like, we rehearse all of the things that we've done wrong or our struggles and our pain.

So whatever we keep rehearsing, we can't.

There's no release.

So instead of rehearsing, rehearsing all of it, I release it, you know, and it's a choice, and you have to keep putting your mind to that and just knowing it's.

It's not going to click at first.

But, like, if we keep saying, what am I afraid of?

What do I need to let go of?

What is my responsibility?

What do I need to chill out about, you know?

Yes.

I think those are such powerful questions.

I think especially one that you mentioned that stands out that just as a standalone, when we make decisions out of fear, that never goes well for me.

I don't know about you, but if I'm trying to make a decision based on fear, it's always going to go sideways.

Always.

And so I think that's a really a profound question to sit with and to take the moment, have the breathing room, and allow yourself to sit with it without guilt or shame.

But to just say, what am I afraid of here?

What's the fear?

To acknowledge it.

Yeah.

And know that that's not the place from which to make your decisions, I think is a game changer.

Yeah, absolutely.

For sure.

Awesome.

Well, is there anything we didn't touch on?

Because, girl, there's so much.

There's so much.

Everybody's gonna get the book.

It's so good.

But is there anything just in particular on your heart right now that you'd like to be sure to share today?

Yeah.

Friend, like my new friend, you're doing so much better than you think.

Like, you're.

You're juggling.

So I'll say this to all, everybody who's listening.

We are doing so much better than we think.

We are so hard on ourselves.

You are incredible.

And you're managing a lot, like, celebrate and be nice to yourself because you're not dropping the ball.

Like, you know, there's just a lot of balls.

You know, there's a lot of things going on that we have to juggle.

But, like, you know, if we could just relax and kind of give ourselves more credit to know that we're going to get on the other side of something one way or the other and to, you know, just maybe become like, an advocate for ourselves, we've got to stop working against ourselves.

And so I think that that's on my heart more than anything is that women are so hard on themselves.

And, like, we gotta stop that.

We've got to set ourselves up for success and peace and grace.

Yeah.

The same grace that we give to everybody else.

Yes.

Extend it.

Like, look at that girl in the mirror and say, man, you're doing pretty good.

Like, life's messy, but you're.

You're good.

You do good.

Yeah.

I love that in this book, you do say, you know, just the fact that you're still trying already means you're doing better than you think you are.

Yes.

Because you're still here and doing the thing.

And we have similar hearts for permission slips, girl.

Like, I've literally got a free PDF people can grab of printable permission slips to write them out to yourself.

Because, you know, it's one thing to say, like, I have permission to.

Whatever it is we don't think we have permission for, but then to see it in writing and, like, it's different.

Yeah, it just.

It makes a little bit of a difference.

But I. I know that's something that you have a heart for.

Like, you are allowed to have love and grace and compassion for yourself.

Yes.

Like, it's about dang time.

Right?

Right.

Yeah, I agree.

Ugh.

This is also good.

I do.

I like to get kind of practical towards, you know, our ladies can walk away with things.

I think we've already given some of that.

But do you personally have any tools or any strategies that you have found to be most helpful when you are managing your time and allowing for breathing room in your life?

Yeah, Like, I love time blocking.

That's, like, one of my favorite things.

That's so nerdy.

Right?

I love it.

I love it.

But, like, I also really love to make appointments because if I write it down on the calendar, and, like, my mentor taught me this.

She's like, write down on your calendar, make an appointment with yourself and keep it.

Yes.

Because if you tell people I've got an appointment, like, I am off duty for this time, then you will guard that time and start guarding.

Building in breathing room into your schedule.

Naturally, knowing that you didn't like.

It's not something we have to earn.

It's something we have to just put into our schedules because we need it.

Yes.

I love it.

Girl, you're preaching my sermon.

That's so good.

That's it.

I love it.

Well, is there a book right now or just in general that is top of your list or a podcast that you would like to recommend to our ladies?

Ooh, I am, like, I kind of do the, like, read a Bunch of different things.

But I've been reading the Let them.

Yeah.

So.

Because I think that that kind of ties into some of the things, you know, like with releasing our control.

So that's been really good.

So I've enjoyed that book.

Yeah.

And, you know, some of my, like, the nerdy in me loves Simon Sinek.

He's one of the things, like, he really talks about relationships and her social media and phones.

And so he's really been speaking some good things to me about putting my phone up.

So highly recommend his stuff.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Like, he's been around a good while, but it's a more recent find for me and I'm.

Yeah, he's so good.

Yeah.

So good.

All right, well, we're gonna wrap it up because I feel like this is something we could talk about all day.

Yeah.

But where can people find you, connect with you if they haven't already?

Yes.

Okay.

You can find me@jenniferrenewatson.com you can also find me on Facebook at Jennifer Renee Rider, but if you put in my full name, that's very, very long.

You can find me there.

I love connecting with people on social media.

And then also Instagram is just at Jennifer Watson.

Just.

That's it.

So I would love to connect with people there.

And yeah.

Thank you so much for having me.

Of course.

Of course.

All the links are going to be in the show notes today.

We'll have a go get the books.

Her newest book.

What if you're doing better than you think, Everybody needs it because we all need this loving, gracious, compassionate reminder that we are already loved more than we realize and life is messy.

Yeah.

And it doesn't mean that we can't keep going, keep trying.

Yeah.

You're doing a good job, ladies.

You're doing great, Jennifer.

Thank you.

I hope we can connect again.

And I'm so grateful for you sharing your heart today.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

You've been delightful.

I've enjoyed it.

Everybody go click the links and we'll see you here next time.